SPOnG Polls: Results
Comments
Showing the most recent 20 comments. Go to the forum to read all 28 comments
10/28
but the thing i think he is getting at, is the types of categories that were used non?
like the difference between hardcore and casual. i dont think it is as simple as that. i hardly play games these days, but i read about them a lot. i own a lot of games (through the years) and sometimes i'll get into a game and play it loads. (super mario galaxy im looking at you) but on the whole, i play maybe between 0-2 hours a week. alot of the time, its on the side of zero. so am i casual, because i dont play games that often. but i dont play "casual" games.
at the moment i am playing (1 hour this week) crisis core, which is such a fanboy type game. not something yoru granny will be playing any time soon. i also started no more heros. (3 hours so far) once again, one of the more "hardcore" games on the wii, though im sure thats an oximoron.
but what does that make me dr dee. hmmm!!! tell me!! I need to know.!!!!!
also, another point i think he was trying to get at, was you dont call film goers hardcore or casual, people like, action, romance, comedies, and what have you. its more, relevent categorisation. not just, casual or hardcore.
id also like to point out, i didnt read the poll, just the comments.....
like the difference between hardcore and casual. i dont think it is as simple as that. i hardly play games these days, but i read about them a lot. i own a lot of games (through the years) and sometimes i'll get into a game and play it loads. (super mario galaxy im looking at you) but on the whole, i play maybe between 0-2 hours a week. alot of the time, its on the side of zero. so am i casual, because i dont play games that often. but i dont play "casual" games.
at the moment i am playing (1 hour this week) crisis core, which is such a fanboy type game. not something yoru granny will be playing any time soon. i also started no more heros. (3 hours so far) once again, one of the more "hardcore" games on the wii, though im sure thats an oximoron.
but what does that make me dr dee. hmmm!!! tell me!! I need to know.!!!!!
also, another point i think he was trying to get at, was you dont call film goers hardcore or casual, people like, action, romance, comedies, and what have you. its more, relevent categorisation. not just, casual or hardcore.
id also like to point out, i didnt read the poll, just the comments.....
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11/28
You're right, it is a very broad brush, but I think if you define what hardcore and casual means, you can slot yourself right in. Of course, we'd first have to agree on that definition. Here's my take;
Hardcore gamer - tends to play more involving games that require a play investment of 30 minutes plus per sitting. Their interest in games is such that they actively seek out information on forthcoming titles in various media.
Casual gamer - tends to play games that provide rapid reward, thus have a pick-up/put-down period under 30 minutes. They typically take little more than a passing interest in the games industry beyond word of mouth/social networks and mainstream media such as TV, newspapers and weekly rag mags.
Anyone wanna build on this?
Hardcore gamer - tends to play more involving games that require a play investment of 30 minutes plus per sitting. Their interest in games is such that they actively seek out information on forthcoming titles in various media.
Casual gamer - tends to play games that provide rapid reward, thus have a pick-up/put-down period under 30 minutes. They typically take little more than a passing interest in the games industry beyond word of mouth/social networks and mainstream media such as TV, newspapers and weekly rag mags.
Anyone wanna build on this?
12/28
its true, i think its more your interest, if its your hobby, ie you take an interest in it, more so than simply, i'll have a go on game A, for 30 minutes. such as reading magazines, looking up release dates, getting excited over little bits of news that to someone on the outside doesnt matter. then you are a (hard)core gamer. otherwise youre casual.
i mean you could have bought a ps3/360 to play GTA, which is a huge slab of money. but can still be referred to as casual. but then you may play for more than 30 minutes a go. and then it gets complicated again.
cant we all just play the games we like, and be happy about it?
not looking anyone in particular.
i mean you could have bought a ps3/360 to play GTA, which is a huge slab of money. but can still be referred to as casual. but then you may play for more than 30 minutes a go. and then it gets complicated again.
cant we all just play the games we like, and be happy about it?
not looking anyone in particular.
13/28
config wrote:
Anyone wanna build on this?
To that I would add something about how a casual gamer will tend to stick to key titles in several popular genres, such as racing and sport. Less conventional genres will be indulged in once they have expensive branding or hype attached, such as GTA or movie tie-ins. They also tend to buy seasonal updates of established titles (see FIFA, Formula 1, Gran Turismo) and see how different they are once they've got them, rather than find out in advance.
The hardcore gamer will seek out reviews beforehand and base much of their purchasing decision upon either such scores, or just as likely make a balanced decision in conjunction with the text in the review. They will also be aware of more obscure games that either have yet to become established, or never will because of how unusual they are (see the Katamari series, Advance Wars or previously Metal Gear Solid).
Casual gamers will also go towards a particular console because of key attractions, such as Playstation branding, or heavy promotion from Microsoft on say, Guitar Hero, but quite likely not be able to compare the relative differences between consoles.
Hardcore gamers will, on occasion drift into fanboyism (see.. okay that's too easy, we all know who we're talking about here) but regardless of preference be able to compare and contrast the hardware and indeed software on offer.
Casual gamers will know the name of the game they're buying and usually the characters involved if they're licensed - see again sports games, and movie tie-ins.
Hardcore gamers will know the publisher, and usually development team as well.
(Please note these are generalisations but within generalisations there are often, but not always, truths)
14/28
config wrote:
Hardcore gamer - tends to play more involving games that require a play investment of 30 minutes plus per sitting. Their interest in games is such that they actively seek out information on forthcoming titles in various media.
Casual gamer - tends to play games that provide rapid reward, thus have a pick-up/put-down period under 30 minutes. They typically take little more than a passing interest in the games industry beyond word of mouth/social networks and mainstream media such as TV, newspapers and weekly rag mags.
Anyone wanna build on this?
I like to build on them by saying their flawed because 1) they're clearly made by a "hardcore" gamer who makes the fault of taking himself as the point of reference. Your "hardcore gamer" is based on your subjective view of it. How about all the soccer moms and teenage girls who play Animal Crossing or the Sims for hours on end?
Your "Casual Gamer" is flawed becaus it doesn't take into account "hardcore gamers" who play handheld games for 15 minutes on the bus and therefore need to buy such games.
In the end , the criteria is wrong, being games (what is a hardcore game really? Any definition in this regard is subjective). A more objective criteria is time. The difference between a casual and a hardcore gamer can be determined by the time spend gaming and all kind of actions around gaming (visiting gaming websites, talking about games with your friends, thinking in terms of games, ect.). This method allows for people to be seen as "hardcore" even if they don't game a lot but do spend a lot of time visiting gaming sites and others.
Then again, this also needs more tiers of gamers like hardcore, regular, below-regular, above-casual ect. Clearly my method needs a lot more testing and surveying to determine plausible weekly hours spend gaming and actions around it and the tier associated with it.
15/28
OptimusP wrote:
A more objective criteria is time. The difference between a casual and a hardcore gamer can be determined by the time spend gaming and all kind of actions around gaming (visiting gaming websites, talking about games with your friends, thinking in terms of games, ect.).
A hardcore gamer has gaming as their primary pass time. A casual gamer does not.
This rules me out as a hardcore gamer, and I'm actually very comfortable with that even though I've been gaming since about '83. Sure, I was hardcore for a while in my teens to early 20s, but I've lapsed now and spend roughly equal amounts of time on gaming, watching TV, reading and <shudder> walking.
16/28
OptimusP wrote:
A more objective criteria is time. The difference between a casual and a hardcore gamer can be determined by the time spend gaming and all kind of actions around gaming.
I see where you're coming from but I think that's majorly flawed. I, who considers myself to be a hardcore gamer, might not play as much as people who I'd consider casual gamers but this is to do with other things taking up time in my life. I have friends who probably play a lot more during the week than I do, but it's the quality not the quantity that counts.
If one person watches a film like Citizen Kane in a week, and another watches the last five teen gross-out comedies that came out, who's more likely to be the film buff?
17/28
schnide wrote:
OptimusP wrote:
If one person watches a film like Citizen Kane in a week, and another watches the last five teen gross-out comedies that came out, who's more likely to be the film buff?
That's more 'Snobbery' than 'Hardcore' though. Don't get me wrong, ask Tyrion and/or Dr Dee, I am a hugely pretentious snob of the highest order in nearly everything actually, however, just because I'd watch Battleship Potemkin and The Seventh Seal over Teen Scare RomCom IV doesn't make me a film buff.
People who are film buffs watch anything that is on film. It's the medium they love - so, I'd say a film buff was someone who would watch Citizen Kane, Dig!, Scary Movie and Titanic in a week - and make their own mind up.
A hardcore gamer should really also be someone who is constantly playing, swapping, px'ing and generally involving themself in all genres of gaming with enthusiasm for gaming.
Sadly, it appears to me that 'hardcore gamer' is getting confused with 'snob gamer'.
Cheers
Tim
18/28
Tim Smith wrote:
schnide wrote:
If one person watches a film like Citizen Kane in a week, and another watches the last five teen gross-out comedies that came out, who's more likely to be the film buff?
That's more 'Snobbery' than 'Hardcore' though. Don't get me wrong, ask Tyrion and/or Dr Dee, I am a hugely pretentious snob of the highest order in nearly everything actually, however, just because I'd watch Battleship Potemkin and The Seventh Seal over Teen Scare RomCom IV doesn't make me a film buff.
People who are film buffs watch anything that is on film. It's the medium they love - so, I'd say a film buff was someone who would watch Citizen Kane, Dig!, Scary Movie and Titanic in a week - and make their own mind up.
A hardcore gamer should really also be someone who is constantly playing, swapping, px'ing and generally involving themself in all genres of gaming with enthusiasm for gaming.
Sadly, it appears to me that 'hardcore gamer' is getting confused with 'snob gamer'.
If you're taking the terms literally then yes, it's just about time spent. Therefore, anyone spending a disproportionately high amount of time playing games compared to other activities is a hardcore gamer. Those not are a casual gamer.
But I hardly play anywhere near the amount of games I want to, for various reasons. I do spend a large amount of time reading about them when I'm at work, such as visiting this lovely site, for both my own enjoyment and also to research the games in which I do have a brief amount of time to play them in.
I do think that being discerning helps that cause, hence my earlier point. I wouldn't play FIFA knowing that PES is out there, and I know that because I do my research. Having this knowledge is what makes me consider myself a hardcore gamer.
19/28
bah, labels...the reality is a complex tapestry of shadings and colors...
Time spent doesn't work, knowledge doesn't really work either, I'd base it off the games themselves, but thats complicated too...the words..."casual" and "hardcore" in reference to gamers mean whatever the person interpreting them thinks they do at the time and in the context...
There are games out there that might be classed as "casual" by most people. there are also people out there who play such games in a manner which could be described as hardcore. There are also games which might fit the "hardcore" definition, and people who play them casually.
I just don't think there is any hard and fast methodology to determine which side of the fence every individual gamer falls on. Then you get the people who most would class as "casual", whose feelings would get hurt because they don't want to be lumped in with the soccer moms (or want to be included with the 'ardcore "cool kids"), and maybe some demonstrably "hardcore" gamers who don't want to be labelled as such.
Just as an example, take The Sims...its a game in the "casual" mode, but it certainly isn't a game that has a short reward cycle...but I'm not sure I'd call someone who plays it obessively a "hardcore gamer", despite the fact that there might not be anything casual about their interaction with the game...I'm not even sure I'd want to call them a "gamer" at all..."Sims participant" mebbe...
Hell, I'd just forget about those two words alltogether. There are gamers (anyone who feels hardcore) and game players (those who are more casual about it). If you feel like a gamer, then I guess you are a gamer. If you just want to play the games, you're just a game player. See there I go, I just demoted them all to "just" game players...someone is going to be offended by that, and feel left out or put upon somehow, even if they know in their hearts the glass slipper fits.
I'm just not sure if the terms have any real meaning outside of someones marketing spiel.
Time spent doesn't work, knowledge doesn't really work either, I'd base it off the games themselves, but thats complicated too...the words..."casual" and "hardcore" in reference to gamers mean whatever the person interpreting them thinks they do at the time and in the context...
There are games out there that might be classed as "casual" by most people. there are also people out there who play such games in a manner which could be described as hardcore. There are also games which might fit the "hardcore" definition, and people who play them casually.
I just don't think there is any hard and fast methodology to determine which side of the fence every individual gamer falls on. Then you get the people who most would class as "casual", whose feelings would get hurt because they don't want to be lumped in with the soccer moms (or want to be included with the 'ardcore "cool kids"), and maybe some demonstrably "hardcore" gamers who don't want to be labelled as such.
Just as an example, take The Sims...its a game in the "casual" mode, but it certainly isn't a game that has a short reward cycle...but I'm not sure I'd call someone who plays it obessively a "hardcore gamer", despite the fact that there might not be anything casual about their interaction with the game...I'm not even sure I'd want to call them a "gamer" at all..."Sims participant" mebbe...
Hell, I'd just forget about those two words alltogether. There are gamers (anyone who feels hardcore) and game players (those who are more casual about it). If you feel like a gamer, then I guess you are a gamer. If you just want to play the games, you're just a game player. See there I go, I just demoted them all to "just" game players...someone is going to be offended by that, and feel left out or put upon somehow, even if they know in their hearts the glass slipper fits.
I'm just not sure if the terms have any real meaning outside of someones marketing spiel.
20/28
I Like Tim's term of the Snob gamer, i like to call them pseudo-hardcore gamers. People who dismiss a game from just the way it looks or dismiss a game as not being a actual game.
I used time as a criteria because it's the only real objective criteria you can use combined with a general love of all forms of gaming (as Tim described so nicely).
Then again, there is also no general accepted definition for what a game is...I got one, posted it here somewhere.
I used time as a criteria because it's the only real objective criteria you can use combined with a general love of all forms of gaming (as Tim described so nicely).
Then again, there is also no general accepted definition for what a game is...I got one, posted it here somewhere.
21/28
Of course it's difficult to label or pigeonhole into nice, easy categories. It's the same with the study of anything, you have generalisations and you also have exceptions. It's no different to your understanding of philosophy, science or even maths sometimes. Experts will often disagree on what is a universal term.
Nevertheless, I think it's worth tying together if someone can - wouldn't it be nice to be the people who brought a workable definition to the gaming world? Overall, I think it's a combination of everything we've said so far.
Except you Roi, but that's just because I hate you, and you know I'm only saying that for old time's sake. Come give me a hug! You can stroke my pony.
Nevertheless, I think it's worth tying together if someone can - wouldn't it be nice to be the people who brought a workable definition to the gaming world? Overall, I think it's a combination of everything we've said so far.
Except you Roi, but that's just because I hate you, and you know I'm only saying that for old time's sake. Come give me a hug! You can stroke my pony.
22/28
schnide wrote:
Nevertheless, I think it's worth tying together if someone can - wouldn't it be nice to be the people who brought a workable definition to the gaming world?
But why though? Every time I've seen this kind of 'defining' occur it's never resulted in anything even slightly positive:
Football/Soccer: "Mate you only go to the home games, you are not hardcore. Mate you only support the big clubs who play the exciting football and have some fan respect, you are not hardcore."
Music: "Mate, you only listen to Best Of compilations, you don't listen to the s**t outtakes that are almost unlistenable to unless you have all the kit I've got. You are not hardcore. Mate, you've never even heard of Dizzy-B-Gun-Magnet, Val Kano and the Quaking Six or even IonaSkoda! You are not hardcore."
Film: "Mate, you don't watch 1920s' Russian Agit Prop movies! You are not hardcore. Mate, you can't even tell me who was third assistant best boy's grip on the 1968 cult classic I Buried My Zombie Blue Jeans on Devil's Bend starring Jimmy Clit and Angela-Sou Dawning! You are not hardcore."
Well... anyway....The only reasons to categorise video gamers are: provide another line of Corprobollocks to put in your marketing presentation; target media for advertising your wares.
Fine and dandy if you have a marketing budget to be concerned about. My concern is that the marketing terms will spill over into gamers' thinking - probably already has.
Tim
PS:
1) Premier League teams are all rubbish though and they will lead to the death of football. Support your local team.
2) All modern movies (those made after 1968 and not starring Jimmy Clit) are rubbish.
3) All Best Of albums are for the lazy, dull and tedious.
I am a huge cultural snob.
23/28
Tim Smith wrote:
Football/Soccer:
Music:
Film:
Music:
Film:
I honestly can't remember seeing distinctions for these being made in the same kind of way as games. I've often had discussions on all over what's better than the other, particularly with music and film as I'm not into sports much myself (prompting much "er, you're not gay or 'owt are ya?") but it's never been in such a hardcore/casual sense.
That's possibly because games are less culturally accepted, and so the supposed hardcore feel they need to entrench themselves more.
But my music conversations have always seemed to centre around the quality of bands who do their best not to sell out (which to me are Radiohead, REM etc) against cheesy manufactured pop s**t (half the top 20) which just exists to make money. But that often just comes down to taste. It's the same with well-written films coming up against churned-out teen movies. If that same argument applies, are we just saying that hardcore versus casual gamers have a difference in taste?
Games somehow seem to have a different angle to the argument though for some reason, and I really do find it interesting to explore this. After all, everyone loves finding out about themselves, right?
Even the people who go and see Not Another Wayans Movie 4 and listen to their Britney Cyrus CD on the drive home.
3) All Best Of albums are for the lazy, dull and tedious.
Or a good introduction to the artist if you can't afford their whole back catalogue. I'm a cultural snob too and I've had that argument before.
24/28
Bloody Hell...I just erased my whole, rather lenghty post accidentally.
OK, the gist was yes, this whole issue is at its root CorproBallocks, and making more of it than that is just silly. Yes, there are people who could be easily defined as one or the other, but there are also many people who are something of both, and trying to force them to one side or another is arrogant, foolish, and ultimately unfair. Except I used more words and said it better. Also, I predicted that this was just the beginning and the next step will be subgenres of gamer, until everyone can be properly pigeonholed in the name of Marketing.
OK, the gist was yes, this whole issue is at its root CorproBallocks, and making more of it than that is just silly. Yes, there are people who could be easily defined as one or the other, but there are also many people who are something of both, and trying to force them to one side or another is arrogant, foolish, and ultimately unfair. Except I used more words and said it better. Also, I predicted that this was just the beginning and the next step will be subgenres of gamer, until everyone can be properly pigeonholed in the name of Marketing.
25/28
PreciousRoi wrote:
Also, I predicted that this was just the beginning and the next step will be subgenres of gamer, until everyone can be properly pigeonholed in the name of Marketing.
Memo to SPOnG Marketing
From: Tim
CONFIDENTIAL
Guys, just touching base mano-a-mano vis a new demographic niche genre I've come across in the Forum.
We're missing out on the "Readers who don't want to be pigeon holded" genre demo niche. And we're missing out on it 24/7. Going forward I want this niche covered off on so someone needs to get across it toute-de-saweeet.
Remember guys, we serve things in cans not can'ts!
Love you guys*
Never let the readers see these memos, K? K!
Ciao!
Tim
* Except for you, Joannie, you're fired. You're just too damn pregnant and ugly. Xxx babe.
26/28
Well...i'm interested in defining, what is definable to some degree, to combat the corporobollocks and fanboyish/pseudo-hardcorish arguments (that's one main category and two subgenres...or is fanboy not a subgenre??? Oeh more debate!).
I would like to write my master test (history for those interested ^^) about games and mostly about gamer mentality. Thing is, i need to define everything (because no one else actually has) from "game" to "hardcore veteran lapsed now-casual gamer". So i like to start in advandce ^^.
I would like to write my master test (history for those interested ^^) about games and mostly about gamer mentality. Thing is, i need to define everything (because no one else actually has) from "game" to "hardcore veteran lapsed now-casual gamer". So i like to start in advandce ^^.
27/28
SPOnG MArketing Department wrote:
We're missing out on the "Readers who don't want to be pigeon holded" genre demo niche
Don't worry, there's only one, and no-one takes any notice of him.
("The marketing men! They're out to get me! They're all out to get me.. Someone please come to get me..")
.
28/28
The BESTEVER and the WORST EVER ! I ' m great at helping nubbies . This is why im on alot of leader boards ! Im the worst at , i take it personal to hunt down the cheats , boosters , glitchrs , aholes , and players who fancy themselfs good ! For fun i have turned of my HUDDS , AIMERS , and i now play whole games with the controller behind my back ! FOR FUN AND I WIN !
Yep, I'm a veteran casual hardcore gamer.